difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve

might be due to charge or different compressor and age. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. Remember, being aluminum, they lower the temps better, and do not pass off as much heat to the radiator, which then makes it's job easier and lowers underhood temps (besides lowering vent temps inside the car). As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. #4. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. ambulance tailgate conversion R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. Talk about what services you provide. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. 5) A/C System Failure. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. Is there a graph? difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. This may be the source of your oil confusion. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! |. "Howdy, Folks!" -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. . An extra half ounce? I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. Are you sure you have an R4? Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? But R22 is almost equally damaging. Temp switch works the aux fan. Compressor. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Look deep into the fins. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. Kommentare . If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. It won't be optimal, though. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. Jun 17, 2011. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. Thanks again. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. gital control scheme. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. Moreso, it had been banned. . The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. The evap is hard to get at. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. . 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. . Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? 10,000BTU conduction heating? PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Generally this works well for the whole system. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. Bookmarks: Digg; del . R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. Look at where the lines will end up. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. They would then make short "jumper hoses" to connect to the existing stock hoses, refit your old fan if there is a "pusher" fan, and recharge to specs. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil.